ceiling limit. they've got a situation where th they're obviously talking about cuts. but one of the problems is people don't really wants cuts. and, also, i think the other reality is if you look at what's happened so far, i think we've cut out quite a bit. revenue that's come in so far, actually, i think it's been a third or fourth of that. so thal eve got a real challenge going forward in terms of what are we going to speak with. >> michelle, as long as it's out there where you have some just overtly saying shutdown is good, i'll do shutdown. don't we need the leadership like mcconnell to say unequivocally, we're not talking about a shutdown nou. it's not a good thing. even nut gingrich, the architect of the shutdown in the '90s says it's not good. it makes one wonder are the others speaking in a set or tone that they can use as an option and that that would be disastrous for this country and the economy. >> i think if the cliff negotiations taught us anything, you can't listen to the hardline lu